And massively increased again in the last five years…

Good work - Labelling someone is really going to help them hear your point of view… And that literally the precise opposite of what I am trying to say, which is that the posted rules are the thing that applies here. If loud kids are not prohibited the signs saying “be quiet” are no longer there, they are not technically in the wrong.

FTR, I totally think the parents are actually the assholes here, and not OP. My point is that if OP did indeed confront them, and he was insulted, he has little recourse but to walk away or find someone in charge of that space to deal with it. If there are definitively clearly posted rules, then point that out to them would help. Alternatively, talking to the librarian in charge is the next step.

I read OPs post more about this being a more common thing in libraries, and I hope that with enough complaints the loud kids will either stop coming, or learn to be more respectful (because yes, that is a parents job to teach their kids that). Unfortunately, I don’t think that will be the case as we have all but lost the ability to see someone else’s point of view.

I couldn’t agree more. The world needs to be more quiet, with people actually learning to think about the needs of others.

For example, it pisses me off no end when some asshole in the park is riding around blaring music out of a backpack speaker. Or that their dogs shit on public grassland. I’ve even walked up to people and asked them to please stop it. Surprisingly, one or two have but most just insult me, and there’s little I can do but walk away.

To a degree, they have a point, as do the noisy people in the library. Unless there is a rule that specifically prohibits it, all we have are the social norms we need to live by. If the majority want such places noisy, we’ll have to find new spaces. That’s what society means.

To be very clear, this does suck but you won’t change these people by complaining, only by building empathy and that is very hard to do when nobody cares about society any more.

This literally means that everyone has an equal right to use it… And you’ve paid for an agency to policy it.

In pools, this means the agency can create a rule for “no dogs”. In this case, the library does not either set or enforce a rule that says kids need to be quiet.

FWIW, I completely agree with your point as you’ve explained it. I also know that complaining to complete strangers won’t change anything. Unless there’s a few librarians on here, in which case, Librarians: WTF?

The enshittification of Meat Space…

There’s a few things here to unpack. Libraries have to evolve. And clearly, those doing the evolving have a goal of getting more kids in, which is laudable. Kids don’t just need to read, but need to love reading. However, that also doesn’t mean they should be allowed to just act wild. I would suggest you talk to the librarian about this if you haven’t already. Maybe they can move to a set of published “kids”hours and quiet (or near quiet) time otherwise.

Chances are, with childcare costs being what they are, these parents may have nowhere else to go with their kids. Again, have you talked with them about maybe keeping a closer eye on their kids and (very politely) suggesting they maybe need to go to the local playground or open space if their kids want to be rowdy?

And finally, have you considered that you yourself could be the problem? Yes, libraries have historically been quiet, study spaces, but things do change, especially as you are travelling. Yes, you want a quiet place to work, but that doesn’t entitle you to one unless you are paying for it.

You seem to putting yourself into a victim-mindset where it’s somebody else’s fault, and why oh why doesn’t somebody else fix it for me? I apologize if this is labelling you, and I do acknowledge that I have an incomplete set of information. So, while I agree with you in principle that people are getting selfish, this problem remains one of social contracts, and these only get resolved when people talk about them openly and without prejudice…

In short, you’re not a Karen for asking other people to be reasonable, as long as you do it from a position of empathy and understanding. And if you don’t get that back, you have to keep trying… You cannot change the world, but the world can change you if you let it

The tests help you discover what needs to be written, too. Honestly, I can’t imagine starting to write code unless I have at least a rough concept of what to write.

Maybe I’m being judgemental (I don’t mean to be) but what I am trying to say is that, in my experience, writing tests as you code has usually lead to the best outcomes and often the fastest delivery times.

This is why you write the test before the code. You write the test to make sure something fails, then you write the code to make it pass. Then you repeat this until all your behaviors are captured in code. It’s called TDD

But, full marks for writing tests in the first place

That’s positively early on trains around Toronto where I live… The schedule is merely a guideline