You bring back memories, man.

But I am serious…! This is how it works…!

This is one of the silliest quotes because we know that the ancient pagans often viewed one another’s gods as correspondent - “Thor is their Zeus,” etc.

And then you have the problem of henotheism where there is potentially a single god with many avatars and a pantheon of lesser spiritual beings… And you start to realize, "Wait, if the Vasihnavites, Shiavites, etc. are really just saying that there is a an arch deity over everything with many avatars in the form of lesser gods that he wears the masks of, plus lesser deities that can’t defy him and act as angels and demons…

"… What is a God, really? Aren’t they nearly monotheists…?"

What is a God.

Plus there’s the very classic position of the Jews and the Chrsitians - the gods of gentiles are demons.

Christianity does not become a religion that denies other gods, but one that claims other gods are misidentified.

Throw in some liberalism and yuo can even have Christians arguing that the worship directed as Vishnu by devoted Hindus who lead ethical lives and strive to be great manifestations of goodness & virtue for the sake of God’s love is not the worship of demons, at all, but rather, an attempt to reach our God through their own traditions that may even be guided in some form by the Holy Spirit…

So, IDK, IDK to what extent anyone is denying other people’s gods and its relevance to religion today.

The very earliest stuff obviously doesn’t have that, and we rely on church history because it wasn’t like even the most interesting thing a Roman governor did that week to kill some random churchmen who created conflict among Jews, nor do we have much preserved about mobs killing these guys other than in the original Christian communal sources.

But really, if you start from the premise that everything Christians ever write about thesmelves is pure propaganda without an iota of truth in it, that creates a non-serious standard with which to evaluate things.

Is it really absurd to think that Protomartyr Stephen was killed by a mob of Jews for preaching a radically different religion to them in a time of great political upheaval? Isn’t this exactly what we think of Christians at later times - that they’d just turn on a guy and kill him for being a heretic? Why is it so unbelievable that it once happened to a Christian? Why is it so troublesome that the only people who bothered to write about these martyrs and preserve their memory were the people who were victims in the course of this?

Obviously, you can say that it’s propaganda and lies, and maybe some of it was. But we know it’s absolutely historic that Christians wre officially persecuted later on. it is also par for the course that they would be less formally persecuted prior to that. it also amkes sense that Christians, like every other group, try to preserve a communal memory.

Almost all of the Christian folklore surrounding Jesus can be directly tied to other myths that were common knowledge to Mediterranean people at the time.

Yeah I got the Mithra chainmail in my AOL account back in 1998 - I know the arguments.

But Christianity presents us with something very wild - it takes the Messianic tradition of Jews which was hitherto interpreted as being about creating an earthly Kingdom that conquers the world and incorporates the gentiles into Israel (or makes the gentiles servants of Israel, who all become noblemen living in a heaven on earth, some interpretations)… and Christ says

“Yeah, but no - the Kingdom is purely spiritual. It’s not temporal. The gentiles join us by worshiping God with us and living these truths - look, this Roman occupier has more faith than all Israel, because you guys are just terrible. You bicker over the law, and miss the total point of the law…”

And the Messiah is now about conquering the world through spreading the Gospel of loving God, and loving your neighbor as yourself, giving up your possessions and conquering greed, freeing yourself from hypocrisy; living in simplicity and supreme virtue, at peace with those around you, practicing non-violence, and now we don’t even need any kind of ceremonial laws at all because we are living the virtues. And that’s how the world becomes part of Israel - by adopting the great things abotu our religion - and that’s also how you get to heaven, which is only achievable after death when I come again…

This is a very unique interpretation of the Judaism of the time - absolutely revolutionary.

Even if you want to say that all the miracles and ‘signs’ are a myth, I think that the “Mithra” angle is actually bad beacuse you could just say they came up with those signs and added them so as to be able to claim they are fulfilling the Old Testament, which was infinitely more relevant to the Jews who were the community that gave birth to the religion.

Keep the faith, by all means. But part of believing is accepting that you don’t get to have proof.

Yeah I agree - there is no proof, and if there was proof, it would ruin it, because we’d no longer be doing good and loving God and our neighbor because it is right, but we would be doing it with the expectation of receiving heaven…

We would no longer be living a spiritual life for the good of oruselves and others - in hope & faith - but we would be Capitalists engaging in transactions that we deemed profitable.

I am not saying you have to believe the corpus of text as 100% factual and become a Christian right now, but I am suggesting that people believing the text isn’t absurd… Moreover, I would suggest that it tends to prove that Jesus Christ was real…

The text itself asserts

• Times & places where he was; actual historic figures; a trial and a death, all of a single person.
• Claims he drew large crowds, healed people, had some publicly known altercations with local religious authorities.
• Claims that other people died in very public events (Stephen the Martyr in Acts) and that actual meetings were convened to decide what to do about it with the head Jewish rabbi at the time (Gamaliel)
• Records his teachings in ways that sometimes kind of conflict with one another in terms of phrasing, and also records different details about events that could be mutually contradictory…

Which all implies that the synoptic Gospels and Acts were very opened to being fact checked by their contemporaries and future generations by trying to place themselves in history, and that the texts were not designed by a cabal of conspirators who wanted to deceive people and come up with the perfect story because the story they made was hardly written by committee - it has things we’d see as imperfections & errors.

Ever play Telephone with a single word for 5 minutes? Now do that to a epic for 100 years, the end result will certainly be something but it may be nothing like the truth

The Telephone game is designed to show you how private rumors occur.

The four Gospels are all the accounts of eyewitnesses to these events that were then recorded by their own hand or by their assistant’s hand, and preserved within the church. Of course, some speculate that they were forged later, but there’s a very long, complicated argument that involves the earliness of the spread of the knowledge of the Gospels and how well they were independently preserved in faraway locations from France to Egypt that indicate that they likely were completed shortly after Christ’s death.

It’s also the case that Christianity was a proselytizing faith, right, so immediately there are operations which send missionaries into the world to spread the news… By all means, deny the miracles and the story, but it seems likely that there was consensus about what had happened before the missionaries departed, which allowed for there to be the preservation of the Gospels and what would later constitute the New Testament.

There’s not a good argument to be made that these guys were just spreading nonsense and spitballing it as they go - the story was straight before they were leaving Jerusalem, or else the four Gospels and the subsequent apostolic letters would not have been something they could have ever all agreed upon.

No, and that is to even be expected.

He was a prophet whose movement had around 120 or so core disciples along with his apostles, plus thousands who followed him about and considered him a healer and revolutionary teacher.

There are people who have done similar things that are completely lost to history other than small records that vaguely outline the controversy surrounding them… We shouldn’t really expect more in terms of proof…

But what is unique is the fact that we have an extremely well preserved corpus of text surrounding him. We also have some good idea that a lot of his followers were prosecuted and killed, and never recanted in the process, which might incline you to believe in the radical truth that they lived by.

Of course I am biased - I am a Christian - but it really does just seem pointlessly antagonistic to dismiss His Existence at all.

I actually think there’s an argument to be made that a lot of top tier athletes are never doing things like their taxes prior to a big match. It’s just really anticlimactic to say “My spouse/manager/dad does all my paperwork and handles my finances before a fight” than to say “I isolate myslf from my spouse and don’t have any orgasms before a fight.”

I also think that they would make the argument that they have plenty of impulse control and focus, it’s just a matter of the extent to which one has it.

It’s one thing to be a man who does not look at p0rn or masturb8 and only sleeps with his wife and another thing to be a monk.

That is amazing - really good stuff. I will add that to my anecdotes on this topic.

Yeah I believe there’s this weird story about how like… Onani/onanism entered the vocabulary through the Old Testament character and then the notoriously private Japanese adopted the foreign word “onani” to refer to masturb8tion and so it just sticks in my head a bit more and comes out when I feel the need to slightly self-censor in consideration of being on the work net (it’s not an English speaking IT team but, you know how it goes, don’t be the shortest hanging fruit).

I am just a social conservative in the Fediverse offering my two cents.

Sorry to coom on your circle jerk on jerking

I think people believe that onani leads to looking at p0rn, which is inherently exploitative to those involved (men and women) and a foul industry. Likewise, it can produce exaggerated sexual fantasies that are unhealthy and can create predatory relationships.

It’s hard to imagine jerking without explicit content, and once you have gone from Swimsuit edition to Softcore, it’s hard to go back… From softcore to hardcore, it’s hard to go back… From niche hardcore to regular, boring hardcore… It’s hard to go back…

And it leads to becoming a person who does this frequently… And then, what if you want a family? Do you really want to be taht guy who is looking at crazy stuff and rubbing one out while your infant daughter is sleeping 30 feet away in her room? Do you want to be the guy whose wife is out of action from giving birth and you are like “Oh, OK, I will just look at explicit hardcore content and content myself…”

It’s a bad habit.

It also creates crazy expectations of others which may even lead to so desiring some novel experience that you have an affair or “open” your marriage.

But to be entirely fair to the guy’s point:

Lots of top athletes have superstitions about abstaining from intercourse prior to events - some are very extreme, with fighters isolating themselves from their spouses and training for months without any release before their MMA fight/boxing match. Some say they do it for, say, just a week ahead of time, etc.

There are a few who have the opposite philosophy and claim to actually do it more in the week leading up to the fight.

It’s really a massive point of contention because some people claim it is a mere superstition while others absolutely will not break their routine.

There is also the famous incident where Bobby Fisher says that he performed poorly at a tournament because he had sex after the first night and the experience totally removed him from his focus…

This might be why it impacts fighters and certain people whose lifting styles are really about maximized performance and not a routine… If concentration is interrupted, it can result in very poor output. Like I can see how someone who is very intense about what they are doing and requires total focus would be interrupted by any form of sexual distraction. This is probably very, very relevant to guys who are fighters…

This might also have to do with perspectives on sexuality - people who ascribe a lot of meaning to it versus those who do not…

Lots of stuff to consider, I think.

LOL, bro, is your actual counter to this putting on the fedora and flexing the neckbeard as hard as you can?

Religion is clearly rubbish! How can you argue against that!

If you were actually an atheist of any caliber, you would be familiar with apologetics enough to not be so dismissive in an inadvertently hilarious manner.

Wonderful observation.

It’s really our duty to be familiar with both sides and be ready to debate.

Of course, exception guy will be in the thread pointing out extreme edge cases in which we all agree that there is no alternative to the accepted opinion (“R*pe is bad, mmkay?”)… But this is besides the point.