Yeah this was my initial reaction way back when I first heard of Rust as well (sometime around 2015 or so I think). TBF it’s definitely not on the same level as e.g. Haskell. But it’s generally I would say less verbose than go (or at least has verboseness where it makes sense compared to go IMHO).

A good article about this: https://matklad.github.io/2023/01/26/rusts-ugly-syntax.html

The generic system is also (way) less powerful compared to Rusts (The trait type system/type-classes is really a nice Haskell-inspired thing, that I don’t want to miss anymore). Also the lack of sum types and proper pattern matching makes go more verbose IMHO.

That’s actually where the title is coming from…

It’s all about experience IMHO, just start small projects (and in my experience ignore all these “design patterns”, I learned quite a lot of patterns, but I’m not really using any of them nowadays, maybe sometimes intuitively, (as this thread shows, “dependency injection” which can be a fancy term for generic function parameters).

Well maybe learn them, but take everything with a grain of salt, I think. Intuitively thinking is often better (with the drive to do it better). Try to write code such that it’s easily readable exactly focused on the problem that it’s trying to solve, not anything fancier (this is actually a very simple but effective Mantra). Otherwise it often leads to overengineering (all these “design patterns” for example…), or premature optimization. (E.g. something like the popular book “Clean code” is IMHO full of antipatterns, like the examples are definitely not something I would do, they are inefficient, boilerplate, and often make the code unreadable).

Yeah that’s my point, I don’t see a use for factories here, because it’s possible to just use generic parameters (whether it’s constructors or function arguments).

I guess I have to start calling function invocation with generic parameters, fancy names (like “dependency injection” ^^)

I say it’s all about data flow and composability, if it’s pretty much always in one direction (modular tree structure/architecture) then you just don’t need all these “patterns”…

… until you’ve heard of Rust :)

(I think Go takes all mediocre language features together and makes an even more mediocre language TBH, take error handling for example, or generic programming (which I agree should be used sparingly, but is super useful if you need it))

It’s probably a general symptom of what people call OOP nowadays, in a more functional composeable world (where I’m living in currently). You just use function parameters and interfaces (or as Rust calls it “Traits”). But I still think in OOP, this is enough as well and the dataflow is more clear.

Thanks for the write up, but as I said, I know and I’ve read all about that already. I still cannot see, why a simple function argument and an interface isn’t enough (you can probably already call that “dependency injection” if you want to get fancy)

I guess I have just divorced with OOP and the “necessary” “design patterns”…

Things are more simple and less boilerplaty now for me :).

I couldn’t believe it, tried it out, what the actual heck? I mean I get all these weird string vs number comparison but sorting actual numbers and this comes out? What kind of drugs were the designers of javascript (or at least this function) on… Who thought it was a good idea to sort numbers lexicographically??

Btw. why don’t interfaces work + “as argument” (whether it’s a constructor in an OOP context or a function parameter)? I think interfaces are exactly built for such a use-case (without all the boilerplate that’s necessary with dependency injection as well as factories).

Btw. to reference the original article where this is from:

https://stevenheidel.medium.com/a-factoryfactoryfactory-in-production-822478b5afbd

I still haven’t really understood the use (and use case) of “dependency injection” (and it feels to me I read now everything about dependency injection I could find), to me it seems to be yet another ProblemFactory.

Yeah, I agree with most not so interesting code (which is surprisingly much, if I think about it, especially average frontend/backend apps, client side oriented boilerplaty code (say e.g. React UI…)).

But coding a nice smart architecture, something novel/innovative (I think where the art of software engineering really lies IMHO)… well I’m not even thinking anymore about using AI (for now at least), it just confuses me, writes dumb code, and writing back and forth with it is cumbersome (to get better code), so that I just code it myself (being a fast typer is reallly helpful I think…). (I’m using it often though as some kind of StackOverflow replacement, but letting the AI code…? nah).

I think it’ll likely take a few years still where I really seriously can/have to think about using AI productively in these cases (where it may even teach me a few things about language features I haven’t known yet)…

Yeah he’s kinda a wannabe Elon, but I think he hasn’t really found a fan base as Elon has, I’m not sure anyone really likes him lol

In germany, netcup has a quite good price/performance ratio

Honestly I don’t like the article (as someone with long-undiagnosed and unmedicated ADHD). A good doctor will guide you (you have to communicate correctly though), try different medications (stimulants like Adderall aren’t the only drug that is prescribed for ADHD), maybe try without for sometime (when your environment has changed to monitor the effects).

What I’m reading in the article is that a lot of people are just uneducated (including the author of the article) about ADHD and effective treatment. And a distorted view on drugs in general, I read a lot of abuse, but no word of the most apparent (and dangerous) drugs that are totally legal and widely socially accepted but IMHO cause quite a lot harm to society (spoiler: I’m talking about alcohol and tobacco, and (although I also consume cannabis and can see quite a few good medical effects of it) - increasingly cannabis at least in the USA).

What I would really like to see at some time is really good neutral science-backed education about psychiatric conditions, substances, abuse of them and liberalization/normalization of them (because war on drugs has just failed anyway), so that we don’t have to have these articles anymore (the main reason for the shortage AFAIK is that the DEA artificially restricts Adderall).

Well I think the issue is less Adderall/stimulants or overdiagnosing of ADHD (~5% of the whole popluation is not a small absolute number), but more the “cancerous” way our society has developed (with capitalism driving it). The modern way to live is certainly not helpful and I’m sure of it that it promotes symptoms of ADHD (like staring the whole day on a screen, doomscrolling etc.). For me it’s really helpful to be active in nature, eating healthy, meditation etc. (these things will be helpful for most people I think, just to train the attention span and also help with executive function etc.).

I also don’t think your friend is the issue, AFAIK it doesn’t really help that much for people without ADHD, and well if he needs to do it, so whatever, if he’s hurting other people because(?) of it though (also by just looking down on others), that’s another story. IMHO liberating and actually really educating about drugs (including stimulants) will likely be helpful for normalizing different medical conditions and society in general, as the dangers of e.g. alcohol is often underestimated and too much socially accepted (like in a bar you’re almost socially required/pressured to drink alcohol), while other drugs are dreaded (like LSD) but may even have a good effect on society.

ADHD among other psychiatric conditions (like autism, which is actually quite often comorbid with ADHD) is a spectrum, not everyone needs medication, it sometimes even doesn’t help that much for people who have ADHD (as I’ve said it’s a spectrum), but most of the time it’s an effective helpful tool (e.g. actually keeping the good habits learned with psychotherapy is not easy without medication in my experience).

I think there should be way more education about what ADHD actually is (since it’s so common), it’s honestly shocking that even quite a few health professionals themselves have a wrong picture of ADHD (I was once diagnosed as a child, than after some time undiagnosed, but after researching quite a bit, I’m very sure that I also have undiagnosed autism (and these conditions in some ways cancel each other out), which is probably why I was undiagnosed, because I could focus at that time… but well executive dysfunction is another story…). Took another 20 years and COVID which made the symptoms worse that I finally got another look.

So regarding your wife, it’s absolutely possible to write a PhD with ADHD in a normal amount of time, hyperfocus can be quite a good help with that (and obviously being intelligent). My symptoms are mostly anxiety and executive dysfunction, I can focus really well when the topic is of interest for me (hyperfocus), but otherwise oh boy (often the most simple boring things)… So I think reading into actual literature and checking out a good health professional will clear things up, also just to finally know what condition it is (if it is one at all).

As someone with diagnosed ADHD (and finally on medication), I cannot emphasize enough, how much this view/attitude hurts those who probably have ADHD but are influenced by this attitude (including myself, as I now finally get my shit together in a relatively consistent way without being distracted by literally everything, after being unmedicated for 20 years…).

I even know a few who very likely have ADHD that share this view and don’t want to take medication.

Fine, everyone should obviously decide for themselves if they want to take medication (or any other drugs at that), but please don’t spread this attitude, it harms those who probably have ADHD but don’t get diagnosed and just think “that’s (my behavior) probably normal”.

Also it’s not just “being productive” in a capitalist system, but rather to get your life together (not forgetting important stuff, executive dysfunction etc. i.e. function better in society (impulsive behavior can be a problem sometimes)).

The shortage AFAIK is pretty artificial and caused by the DEA. So I would rather “shit” on the failed War on Drugs than on those who self-diagnose on ADHD and take/“abuse” medication. Drug abuse is a different topic and omnipresent and a social blurred sense of reality with hard drugs like alcohol (it’s actually a harder drug than stimulants like Adderall…).

IMHO everyone should decide themselves what they take if it doesn’t harm others…

Non the less, if one suspects they have ADHD they should obviously talk to a (good) doctor to verify and check side-effects, probably different medication (for me e.g. Atomoxetine works better for executive dysfunction, and stimulants are good to keep the focus on one topic, while not being distracted (but doesn’t fix executive dysfunction that well)).