• _number8_@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    118
    arrow-down
    16
    ·
    1 year ago

    aside from the issue of ‘prohibition still doesn’t work’, i don’t think giving kids or “underage” adults criminal charges for cigarettes is making anything better for anyone

    • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      86
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Smoking age is specifically the ability to purchase. There are no criminal/civil charges for underage smoking. The crimes are specifically 1) selling to minors 2) buying for minors.

      TL;DR: No one goes/will go to jail for underage smoking. They won’t even get in trouble for buying. The onus is on the vendor OR the legal purchaser who handed them off.

      • Melkath@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        31
        arrow-down
        55
        ·
        1 year ago

        Incorrect.

        A black market is created, kids still smoke, but poor people making a buck selling to kids go to jail.

        It doesn’t fix the issue and syphons poor people into prisons.

        • cryptosporidium140@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          How is BolexForSoup incorrect? Also, why should anyone care if a person goes to jail for selling cigarettes to minors? It wouldn’t even be a valid source of income for these people if kids could buy them directly from the store so I’m not even sure what you’re suggesting we do

          • Melkath@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            18
            ·
            1 year ago

            Prohibition laws do put people in prison.

            “Noone goes to prison for underage smoking”. False. The people selling the cigarettes, poor people trying to make a buck, go to jail for the underage smoking.

            I suggest we do nothing.

            Prohibition doesn’t work.

            Mind your own business.

              • Melkath@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                10
                ·
                1 year ago

                You’re just being purposefully obtuse now.

                No. The kids aren’t the ones going to prison, but the prohibition laws do send people to prison.

                  • Melkath@kbin.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    6
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    No. I am pointing out that you are making two conflicting statements.

                    You are doing mental gymnastics.

                    Back to the point “Noone goes to prison for underage smoking”. Yes they do. When you make prohibition laws creating the concept of “underage smoking” you ARE sending SOMEONE to prison.

                • null@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  No one but you is being obtuse here.

                  You “corrected” someone by making an entirely different point from the one they made. In fact, the person you said was “wrong” actually stated the very thing you did.

                  No one is saying your point is wrong. Just that it isn’t a correction.

            • Kepabar@startrek.website
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              I would argue that society should reserve the right to punish individuals who harm others for their personal benefit.

              And I would argue that selling a physically addictive substance that directly causes harm with no benefit to the user for personal profit is causing harm.

              So while I don’t support arresting people for smoking, I 100% so support arresting people for selling.

              • Melkath@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                7
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                Again, I just see mental gymnastics.

                So you just outright said that people should be free to smoke, but anyone who sells what is being smoked should be incarcerated.

                How is that not a complete oxymoron?

                No. You have a factually flawed bias against a thing, and you want to mob up with other people to enforce your opinions and will upon people you disagree with.

                As a result, you want to imprison poor people and not accomplish what you claim to want to accomplish.

          • Melkath@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Happy you are for the siphoning of poor people to for profit prisons.

            Really sounds like your plan to eradicate tobacco from existing is solid.

        • zephyreks@lemmy.mlOPM
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          14
          ·
          1 year ago

          How do you propose this black market gets created? In theory, no new addicts would get created because the smoking age rises in lockstep with the people themselves.

          • Neve8028@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yes, because no one has ever smoked before they reached the legal age.

          • Petter1@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            There is already a black/gray marked near many schools (for the younger, there are cigarettes and for the older there is weed.) it’s a market where there is just one person selling, it is more a fluid market where the young people sell and buy to each other, mostly there are multiple kids with connections to get the goods in any school and then it rotates through the different kids by selling, buying, stealing etc. Source: I’m 26 now, and don’t believe that has changed since I left school.

    • genoxidedev1@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      I know this is pretty radical, but if we made smoking FFA way fewer people should theoretically start smoking in the first place. From my experience when I was still at school most of the people there were only smoking because it’s “cool”, making smoking legal for everyone should take the coolness factor away at least.

      • cryptosporidium140@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        I don’t know about that, from what I remember being a kid it’s more about what their parents allow them to do than just the law. I knew a Mormon kid who thought it was badass to drink root beer and see R rated movies. If your parents tell you not to smoke that could be all it takes to make it cool. My suggestion: smokin’ Teletubbies

      • Melkath@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Please, oh dear god…

        Please tell me what FFA means and how it doesn’t amount to “send poor people to prison”.

        • genoxidedev1@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          FFA just means “free for all” (it’s a term from competitive games, in case you shouldn’t know), in this context I used it as another word for ‘legal’.

          • Melkath@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Oh thank god.

            Yes, I 100 percent agree with you. Your thought process is the way.

            Sorry I was so adversarial in my first comment. A lot of the rest of this thread has me all sorts of triggered.