Hamas has called on Palestinians to stay in their homes after Israel issued sweeping evacuation orders for almost half of Gaza’s more than 2.3 million people ahead of an expected ground offensive.
The Hamas authority for refugee affairs today told residents in the north of the territory to “remain steadfast in your homes and to stand firm in the face of this disgusting psychological war waged by the occupation”.
Translation: “If all the civilians leave, we won’t be able to use them as human shields anymore.”
Edit: It’s also true that Israel has made it extraordinarily difficult to leave. They are not the good guys, here. But there are no good guys here except for the civilians, and we know Hamas is a terrorist organization that is perfectly willing to use them as human shields.
There’s nowhere for them to go…
Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, and Israel just told them to fit in half as much space at a time when they have no fuel, water, or electricity.
It’s fucking impossible. And if they actually move, the Palestinians are smart enough to know they will never be able to access that land again.
Hell, Hamas is the only ones with the resources to move
The point is, Hamas is deliberately trying to rise the death toll of Palestinians by telling them to stay put.
You think Israel will just stop and leave the Southern half?
Even if they did, they’re keeping the northern part and annexing it.
But more likely they’ll be invading the southern half immediately after taking the north.
They can’t even leave Gaza, because Israel is attacking the exit to Egypt.
Stop acting like them moving is in any way a valid option. They are literally fucked no matter what they do. And it’s been like this for a long long time.
You think Israel will just stop and leave the Southern half?
Even if they did, they’re keeping the northern part and annexing it.
I’m opposed to what Israel is doing but the truth is that Israel has repeatedly given back land they have captured during conflicts. So yes, they will not be annexing any land. As well, there is way too much international attention on them right now, whereas their approach of taking tiny bites has been subtle enough to avoid causing repercussions, so they most likely just go back to doing that at a later date.
The thing I don’t understand about this invasion is what’s stopping Hamas from just relocating south with the rest of the Palestinians? Sure they’ll lose some heavier equipment that might be hard to move but they don’t have that much of it to begin with. If they stay and fight they’ll lose the equipment anyways, and only end up getting killed. Whereas if they leave with the civilians, then Israel will look stupid after invading Gaza only to find nothing. Huge failure for them.
Literally your first sentence is a lie whilst saying ‘the truth is’
Where do you get your world news?
Apparently I get my world news from the history books, here’s a few examples you can look up:
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1967 Israel takes control of the entire Sinai Peninsula
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1971 Israel returns Sinai Peninsula to Egypt
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1982 Israel invades Lebanon after attacks from militants
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1983 - 1985 Israel slowly withdraws from most of southern Lebanon
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2000 Israeli completes withdrawal from Lebanon
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2005 Israel withdraws all military and civilians from the Gaza Strip and hands over control to the Palestinian Authority
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2007 Hamas violently overthrew the PA in Gaza (bet you didn’t cry about this)
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2023 Israel withdraws from Jenin in the West Bank after invading
1967 Israel takes control of the entire Sinai Peninsula
Yeah… after fighting 3 countries and winning so hard they actually gained ground.
1982 Israel invades Lebanon after attacks from militants
1983 - 1985 Israel slowly withdraws from most of southern Lebanon
Yeah in this case they didn’t invade Lebanon for the land in the first place, they were just trying to genocide the Palestinians.
The settler thing is different because the intent is to steal the land
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And they never built illegal settlements or evicted Palestinians from their homes. /s
Never claimed otherwise. In fact, I literally mentioned Israel stealing land when I wrote:
their approach of taking tiny bites has been subtle enough to avoid causing repercussions, so they most likely just go back to doing that at a later date.
I guess that was too abstract?
In Gaza they stopped doing so in the mid 2000s.
The stated objective is to eliminate Hamas. Civilians are being told to evacuate the area. Hamas should not be advising otherwise. Doing so is inhumane and using the Palestinian people as human shields.
I think you get all of the information about the reality of this war from headlines and mainstream Western outlets.
Tell you what, why don’t your layout your excavation plan? I would strongly recommend you do at least some light reading about the reality on the ground first.
I find BBC’s coverage quite impartial, even though a lot of their human side of the stories is from Israel.
There are also plenty Of Western media outlets who are trying to depict both points of view in this conflict which is admirable, but I presume the media in the US is more opinionated.
I also think what Hamas did was horrendous, but I know that the answer of Israel is not the solution either, and it is a pity just because politics and religion so many innocents from both sides have to suffer.
IDF spokesperson in Arabic - “The population of the city of Gaza, we address you this morning to leave the city of Gaza to the southern Gaza Strip for your security. I want to inform you that the IDF will refrain from touching the designated route on the map until 20:00. For your security, take advantage of the next time to move south from Beit Hanoun to Khan Yunis. We will publish additional safe methods later on. If you are concerned about yourselves and your loved ones, it is advisable to move south according to our instructions. Be close and assured that Hamas leaders are only concerned with protecting themselves in preparation for the upcoming attacks.”
I’m sorry, but parroting the IDF is not credible. Especially considering we’ve already had reports in the last several days of these IDF evacuation routes being bombed by the IDF.
So either go read up on the realities of Gaza, or GTFO with your idiotic takes.
Have you thought that perhaps Israel could just not bomb a civilian area?
I’d argue that not leaving would hopefully discourage bombing the entire area and 2 million people losing their homes.
Israel “we’ll do it anyway”
Who’s the bad guys here?
Recall who is bombing civilian areas indiscriminately. From these populated areas in Gaza. Using the Palestinians as human shields. Israel has a right - an obligation - to protect her citizens.
Did you forget what prompted this only a few days ago? I don’t know what kind of response they’d expect.
Did you forget what prompted that? I don’t know what kind of response you expect from locking millions behind a wall on their own land.
It didn’t happen.
And if it happened then it wasn’t me.
And if it was then it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was then they deserved it <— You are here.
Ahh right I forgot that old saying, how does it go? “Eye for an I’ll kill your entire family”
Yes, but that’s only the convenient half for the pro-Israeli media.
The inconvenient other half is that they have blocked EVERY possible exit from Gaza, including telling the Egyptians to not allow anyone out.
So, no food, fuel, electricity, medicine, water, or shelters. One of the MOST densely populated regions in the whole world, and they were just expected to what? Walk down the strip to sit in the ‘safe’ bombed out rubble?
Would they be allowed a “right of return” afterwards?
No good options for those residents. So you can use this to rightfully condem Hamas because it suits their political objectives, but that doesn’t change the fact about the rest of what I’ve laid out.
So what would you do? Stay in your home and risk death? Or become homeless and only have a marginally less chance of death?
That’s exactly what I keep thinking about, to hell with what the controlling forces say, the two options in front of those residents aren’t really options. I can’t wrap my head around what that must be like.
Question: is it actually true that Israel doesn’t want Palestinians to leave via the southern border to Egypt? I’ve heard on the news twice (BBC Hardtalk and somewhere else I can’t recall now) that the opposite is true. From what I’ve heard, Israel wants the Palestinians to leave, but Egypt does not want to allow them into their country because it would be a huge burden to feed, house, and police a million+ angry refugees.
It also makes more sense from Israel’s point of view to get the Palestinians out of Gaza. Israel’s greatest danger is, and always has been, the opprobrium of the international community if they kill too many civilians. It would be a huge victory for Israel if the civilians all leave, which is why Hamas wants them to stay!
That’s correct. Egypt does not want to take the Palestinians.
Egypt wants to, but Israel keeps bombing the Palestinian side of the border and won’t agree to letting Egyptian aid in to clear it so people can escape from Israels attacks.
article looks like Egyptian government just looked for an excuse to not help
Israel just want all Palestinian land, no matter how. If they leave, great. If they’re all dead, fine. All they care about is the land. Of course Israel would prefer them to just leave and not be their issue anymore, but they caused the issue driving Palestinians into Gaza in the first place, and could just as easily let them out again.
Israel unitarily pulled out of Gaza in the mid 2000s. If all they wanted was to take all the land they could do so.
Answer:
Israel keeps saying it’s open, but bombed it three times in 24 hrs too…
Israel on Tuesday dropped bombs next to the only border crossing allowing civilians to flee Gaza after the Israeli military directed Palestinians, looking to escape air strikes in the war against Hamas, toward the crossing.
Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, an IDF spokesman, urged Palestinians to leave the Gaza Strip for Egypt early Tuesday, with the Times of Israel reporting he said: “Rafah crossing is still open. Anyone who can get out, I would advise them to get out.”
This airstrike was the third Israeli attack on the crossing in the last 24 hours and consisted of four missiles, Al Jazeera reported, citing officials from the local Egyptian group, Sinai for Human Rights.
So the crossing is open on the Egypt side, but complete rubble and inaccessible on the Palestinian side
The Egyptian side of the crossing is open, but the Palestinian side is “non-functional” following multiple Israeli airstrikes earlier this week, a senior Jordanian official told CNN Thursday, adding that “the Jordanians and Egyptians are waiting for security clearance from the Israelis to allow (aid) trucks to cross without threat of another airstrike.”
Israel is telling them to do something that’s literally impossible.
The inconvenient other half is that they have blocked EVERY possible exit from Gaza, including telling the Egyptians to not allow anyone out.
Er… that’s not true. They were initially telling Palestinians to go to Egypt. Egypt does not want them in the Sinai and told Israel to provide safe passage through Israel.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rafah-border-gaza-egypt-israel-1.6994234
Yes, it’s true that Egypt does not want to allow a mass exodus of refugees.
It’s also true that Israel has been bombing that area as well.
So not sure what your point is.
It seems like the airstrikes damaging the crossing is a more recent development that I wasn’t aware of. Your CBC article and the CNN article posted above are only an hour old. Your Times of Israel article says this:
The Rafah crossing was open for periods Tuesday morning, but Egypt only allowed through Palestinians who’d already gotten authorization to leave the Strip.
On the Rafah crossing’s Facebook page, Gazans lamented the decision to not open the crossing for anyone wishing to leave, with one user writing: “Interior Ministry, this is not the time to put someone in danger who survived a bombing and miraculously reached the crossing. We cannot return to death.”
In this case staying put will likely save more lives than trying to move 40k people per hour within 24 hours.
Not even Hamas themselves are saying they were doing it in order to prevent loss of lives during the evacuation.
A broken clock is right twice a day
How?
40k?
It’s 1.1 million people being told to leave their homes…
40k per hour
That depends on wether Israelies will just level the whole place. One nuke would be enough. They have nukes and they seem to be unhinged.
Nah, Israel wouldn’t nuke it. Even they can’t convince citizens to resettle there if it’s been irradiated.
Israeli translation: if you don’t get the fuck out so we can capture and resettle half your city we are more than happy, to commit mass murder instead.
to commit mass murder instead.
Mass murder like attacking a festival and killing 260+ people?
Mass murder like threatening to kill 1.1 Million civilians.
Translation this is your land we have nothing left to lose because of systematic destruction of our land and Culture.
Gaza is more densely populated than LA and they have no electricity, water, or fuel.
The only exit is thru Egypt, and Israel keeps blowing it up.
Even if the message got to everyone, there’s no way people could do what Israel told them.
Israel knows this. They weren’t trying to “help” by announcing they’re going to flatten half of Gaza, they want to cause panic and riots.
In this specific case isreal asked residents of Gaza city, a subpart of the Gaza strip to move to a more southern position in the Gaza strip. Like asking people to move from Manhattan to Brooklyn because they are going to blow up Manhattan. People are capable of moving within the Gaza strip. That doesn’t mean there will be housing for them however.
That doesn’t mean there will be housing for them however.
Or food… Or water…
Or shelter for a few days from now when Israel starts bombing the southern half.
All this is doing is motivating residents of Gaza to pick up arms against Israel.
Which a cynic would say is exactly what Israel wants
Hamas has been teaching them to pick up arms against Israel. Did you already forget what happened 6 days ago?
Teaching and motivating are two different things. Heck, they are even different words!
So the answer of Israel of what happened 6 daysis to kill even more civilians and to create unimaginable humanitarian catastrophe in an already occupied territory. And what do you think this will achieve? Hint, it is not going to be exactly long lasting peace.
Like asking people to move from Manhattan to Brooklyn because they are going to blow up Manhattan
Even if this analogy was representative, this would ALSO be a complete mess to try and do and that’s in a city with working roads, fuel, transportation options, easy access to telecoms/information, and support personnel. Even with all that, it would not be possible to do in 24 hours.
I don’t think the analogy helped
Hamas is telling them not to even try. Not because it is logistically challenging, but because they want more Palestinian deaths. That’s inhumane.
I am not defending the atrocities of Hamas, but what Israel is systematically doing with Palestinians isn’t exactly a role model.
I agree that they should try, that wasn’t the part I was commenting on
Not true. Israel has given specific instructions to the UN and the Palestinian people where it is safe for them to go in Gaza.
And then they bomb and target those places specifically. Israel is staging a genocide. This statements are just lip service to pretend that they are following some formalism of humanitarian law.
That is false.
A random guy on the Internet says it’s false. MSN says it’s true.
Gee, who should I believe? /S
Read the article.
I did. To quote:" Most of the travelers were Dual European-Palestinian families fleeing out of Gaza," Younis Tirawi, a Palestinian reporter, posted on X, along with a video of the chaos shortly after the strike landed. “There were casualties.” The video appeared to show people screaming and running away as smoke billowed near the crossing…
… After the strike, IDF officials said the Rafah border crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt was not the specific target in the counter-attack against Hamas and that the bombs were intended to strike an underground smuggling tunnel nearby, per CNN."
Sure sounds like they targeted and hit the border crossing to me. “Nearby” is ambiguous. Could be a mile, could be five feet. “Wasn’t a specific target” implies it was a general target. Otherwise, the statement should have read “was not a target.”
…
The accusation is that it is intent to kill civilians. The article doesn’t suggest intent. Appears to be unfortunate collateral damage. That’s far different from the original posters position that this is Israel’s attempt at genocide. Not saying war isn’t messy. This is unfortunate and there will be civilian casualties. The Palestinians should choose better leaders that want peace, not those that have a charter of war.
From the article you posted:
After the strike, IDF officials said the Rafah border crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt was not the specific target in the counter-attack against Hamas and that the bombs were intended to strike an underground smuggling tunnel nearby, per CNN.
The IDF also issued a clarification later Tuesday, after the strike near the Rafah crossing, saying there is “no official call by Israel for residents of the Gaza Strip to exit into Egypt,” the Times of Israel reported.
Whatever the case, they bombed it. They should have known the variability in where it would land and called off the operation when they saw the humanitarian corridor was in that zone.
Was anybody actually hurt?
Telling people to go to an area and then bombing a valid target next to it is scary, sure, but it’s not a deliberate attempt to kill civilians.
War is messy. Collateral damage is unfortunate. What Hamas did last Saturday wasn’t collateral damage.
Dude, it’s already happening. Stop taking sides, Israel is conducting a genocide as we speak, and you’re here defending them.
Lmao and you take them at face value. You’re either a shill or gullible as fuck.
I tried browsing his comment history because I had the same assessment, and honestly, it’s 50/50.
My best guess is that he’s just so fervently pro-Israel that if he ever comes across anything that doesn’t 100% confirm his own biases, he immediately turns away.
Some things to consider:
- Check out some maps of Israel-Palestine over time and tell me whether fleeing Palestinians will ever get their homes back
- Gaza has no bomb shelters. The best they have are their own homes, and hospitals – which are already overrun with local populations, let alone migrant populations, and are being targeted by Israeli air strikes
- Israel is using white phosphorous against a territory which, if considered a country on its own, would be the third-most densely populated in the world
- Supplies of food, water, electricity, and fuel have been cut off, so people who leave their local support systems have no chance of acquiring vital supplies
- There is no exit. Sea has a permanent blockade. The only airport has been a crater since 2001. There are two ground crossings (Israel and Egypt), and the Egyptian one has been repeatedly closed due to Israeli missile strikes – after Israel advised civilians to go there.
- Israel is already targeting evacuating convoys
- Earlier this year, displacement from the war in Sudan was repeatedly called a “crisis” by relief orgs when it reached a displacement of 1 million people in a country of 45 million, one month after fighting began. We’re talking about 1 million in a territory of 2.3 million, in 24 hours
Check out some maps of Israel-Palestine over time and tell me whether fleeing Palestinians will ever get their homes back
Did you notice how the Gazan border in 1967 was the SE as it was in 2005? What did the map look like in 1990? Is the reason you didn’t include that map is that it would have shown a return of land in the Gaza strip done so without a war by Israel to demonstrate that peace based on the 1967 borders could function. I also noticed your maps ignored the Sinai, another example of where Israel has shown a willingness to give up land for peace.
If there was a realistic shot that return land won in warfare would lead to lasting peace, Israel would do so.
I know we’re all fighting but I think this guy has a point.
I’m pretty sure Israel and Palestine were closer to peace in 94 than they ever have been but then Zionists assassinated Rabin.
After thatActually kinda the whole time the US and UK refused to work with Hamas and in 97 they declared Hamas a terrorist organization.I mean Hamas clearly is a terrorist organization. How many raped corpses do they have to drag through the streets to prove it?
With the way people are salivating about Hamas slaughtering Jews, about 6 million I’d guess.
I feel bad for the Palestinians and the Israelis that have gotten sandwiched between two extremes. I wish I could do something for them but quite honestly, I doubt anything I could do would help.
Motherfucker, look at the maps. Hamas is the resistance. Israel is the attacking force that just said “this is my land now and if you don’t like it I’m bombing you”. You think that’s right?
What would you do if someone entered your home, raped and killed your family, claimed it’s their home now and then shot you when you tried to stop them? Would you still talk some shit about how trying to take your home back is terrorism?
Sheltered fuck.
Look at the map yourself you ignorant prick. Gaza has the 1967 borders. All of Palestine could have the 1967 borders; but Hamas has decided they’re going to be absolutely horrible essentially all of the time.
“Resistance” isn’t a justification for war crimes.
Idk, the chemical weapons and internal whistle blowing dont agree with your guess.
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They care enough about peace to give land back in pursuit of it. There are multiple political parties in Israel. The ones that engineered the Gazan deal got voted in because the majority of Israeli’s wanted to create a peace deal based on the 1967 borders. And the coalition they put together didn’t have the political power to unilaterally do it all at once a after the PLA pulled out of the Oslo Accords. So, they hung their hat on establishing peace in the Gazan strip in a manner that could be a model for the establishment of peace across the region. In the same way that they dismantled settlements and returned oil installations in the Gazan strip to Egypt in search of lasting peace; they did the same to the Palestinians in the Strip.
But unlike Egypt, Gazans responded with neverending war.
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No obviously not all 2.4 million civilians are Hamas. Hamas military might has been estimated at ~40k soldiers.
To control a 40k strong force you need structure. You need offices, training grounds, mess halls, barracks, weapons depots etc. Now Israel could attempt to “just bomb” those installations but, that approach has proven ineffective in the past as Hamas has built a lot of that infrastructure underground. So if you want to cripple Hamas’ military you need to invade and collapse and clear out tunnel networks by hand.
phosphorus bombs
Are legal under the rules of war. They’re commonly used as tracer rounds and targeting rounds. So you might ID a target with a drown, drop a wp munition and let the drone loiter in the area while you try to hit the target with Artillery fire. This is especially effective because modern artillery munitions can course correct in flight based off an infrared (heat) signature and wp burns at like 800 degrees. So if you’re goal is to destroy certain buildings in an urban area without leveling the whole urban area; you must use something like wp rounds.
Traditional artillery would leave the whole city bombed out. Take a look at some of the cities on the front line in the Ukraine War to see the effects of traditional artillery bombardments.
kill or coerce
Your first link is behind a paywall. Your second is relatively indefensible. Cops harras people. I don’t have a solution for it en-mass. If it comes out that “harras them journos” was an order that came from the top then I’d be pissed. That’s not right.
The sensible response to a terrorist attack is to try to dismantle the group, not to turn a city into ruins and kill civilians.
I’d argue that they’re clearly not attempting to turn the city into ruins. I did an analysis but with nukes you could turn the whole strip to ruins with just two. And with conventional tomahawks you could cause damage to 90% of the city cores of the three biggest cities with just 20 1kt tomahawks. It’s clear they’re not “firing for effect”. They’ve got a list of targets in terms of buildings and installations and they’re going after them to cripple Hamas’.
You don’t end an ideology with bombs, ask the United States how this attempt worked.
It’s worked well for us. There’s no terrorist group in the world that thinks about what it’s going to do and says, “I’m gonna fuck with America.” And quite frankly we need our way around the Middle East and overthrew a number of governments to make sure that message was clear.
“It’s worked well for us.” until it doesn’t … If I remember, no one expected the 9/11 attacks. And 20 years of bombs and dead soldiers, Afghanistan is the same.
“There’s no terrorist group in the world that thinks about what it’s going to do and says…” You are well connected, apparently, to know the intentions of all terrorist groups… with how often the US fucks with other countries I would be very careful with my back. But keep supporting your genocide, you are good at it, I’m out.
Boy, the AI was drinking when it made that summary.
I was reading through it carefully for the issues till I got to the bit where it was explaining unrelated headlines. After that it started to spit out… whatever this was:
The draw on Wednesday night ended a long stretch without a winner of the top prize and brought news media to Midway Market and Liquor in Frazier Park, a community of 2,600 residents about 75 miles north of Los Angeles.
I saw the worst summary I’ve ever seen on a post about a Firefox bug getting fixed recently after 22 years. The summary was like “the day after Firefox launched, this big got fixed!” And it had 10 upvotes
Who the hell is still defending Israel after this declaration to eradicate Palestinians in Gaza?
People who think that eradication of Israel is worse.
if your government invade and kill civilians in any country that have a strong army you gonna have a bad time. how do you think Canada would answer this?
and the USA? the Germans?
Imagine a country has blockaded all of your borders. No one can leave, your power plants cant import fuel, not even humanitarian aid is allowed in, and people are dying as a result. You want them to just wait for a slow death?
this shitty false dichotomy again, the options aren’t just dying or murdering civilians, but I would rather just die than murder random civilians in a party anyway
Its not a choice between the two, people were already dying. How do you stop them from dying?
I don’t think there is a good answer for that, but someone will have to take hamas down. I don’t blame the Palestine people for not dying trying to take them down, and I don’t blame Israel for doing it either.
On what they should do about Israel, almost any kind of protest you can imagine would give better results than the shit hamas is doing.
They could throw poo on baloons on Israel direction. They could invade dressed weirdly and throwing pies or water on the face of Israelis. Anything that would make them annoyed, think on the problem, and that had the chance of bringing people to their side instead inviting a war they won’t win.
Hamas isn’t there to solve the problem. They knew from the start what reaction it would cause and that it wouldn’t improve palestinian lives or piece. They wanted to make things worse to keep relevant for the people that want war
I’m not sure it is reasonable to “defend” either side at this point. There are radical and moderate, innocent and guilty, peaceful and violent, reasonable and unreasonable people in both Palestine and Israel, and peace proposals have been made and rejected many times. I doubt many people outside of the situation have unlimited support for either side since both sides have committed atrocities.
I would guess that most observers realize that decades of alternating peace and war in Israel have shown that no lasting peace is possible until one side leaves.
After watching this conflict for 40 years, I have empathy fatigue. I don’t really care who wins anymore, but this region has been a powder keg for too long. I also don’t care whose “fault” it is anymore. All parties have to leave that behind and get to practical solutions. 75 years of unresolved active conflict is just too long.
Israel is too powerful. It will not be moved or defeated, and another all-out war by another coalition of Arab states will hurt the Palestinians as much as the Israelis. Nor will Israel ever allow the “right-of-return” of millions of Palestinians to Israel proper because then the Jews would be demographically overwhelmed. Therefore, the most practical, peaceful and humane, if not the most just or fair, solution is for most Palestinians to be properly re-settled outside of Israel, far from the Israeli border, where they can start new lives.
I think your sentiment is specifically against arabs. Would you be suggesting people like ukrainians to abandon their country to end the war that another, larger country started?
I love how so many people think the answer to the displaced Palestinians issue, is to evict every Israeli out of the middle East and displace a whole new generation of people. Coexistence is the only path forward but it isn’t going to happen with natanyahu and Hamas in charge. The young people need to be given charge of their future
Boy that sure is a lot of words being put in my mouth
No, it has nothing to do with my having a preference for Jews over Arabs, or Ukrainians over Russians, for that matter. If Ukraine and Russia are still fighting and disrupting the region after 75 years, I would say the same thing. In fact, it is sad to say, but most experts think that Ukraine will probably have to trade away some territory for peace. My point is that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for 75 years and won’t be settled peacefully as long as Israelis and Palestinians occupy the same land, so some other solution is necessary.
I assume the same applies to the country Russia invades after Ukraine surrenders, like ukraine is after Crimea. And to the next region israel seeks to expand into for Zionism after palestinians are gone.
We are talking along different tracks. Creating the state of Israel in Palestine was obviously a huge mistake, and booting out the Palestinians is certainly unjust. We agree. But now what? People can wish for a more just solution, but 75 years of unresolved conflict and suffering in Israel suggests that less-than-ideal solutions should be considered.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe THIS TIME Israel and Palestine will figure out how to make a lasting peace. But I doubt it.
On their own? Of course not. It’s a lesson we’ve learned before, aggressor states have to be addressed internationally. But currently, the aggressor state is the one being supported internationally. I dont think the people of Israel are like Russia, I think even just pausing aid on the condition that they stop the occupation of Palestinian territory would get them on board. Theyve created a humanitarian nightmare that needs addressing, that can be addressed with international help.
I don’t think Israel is an aggressor state at all. Don’t forget that Israel has withdrawn from Palestinian territory before, and the result is always more attacks. That’s also why Israel still occupies the Golan Heights. Israel has always said that it will trade occupied territory for security guarantees, which no one can give as long as Hamas and Hezbollah are in charge and singularly bent on the destruction of Israel.
But, here we are, going down the same old tired narrative. All of this has been said and tried for decades. It’s a frustrating quagmire for a reason. It’s time for realpolitik, not another ideological crusade to gain justice for the Palestinian people. The Palestinians need to move on and be supported by the international community to do so. I know that isn’t satisfying or fair, but I don’t think that a good solution exists.
So… In this case, Hamas is Russia and Israel is Ukraine. Hamas is the one who started the latest attack.
That wasnt the beginning of anything, this has been going on for a long time. The latest attacks have been in response to the humanitarian crisis Gaza has been experiencing from Israels blockade of Gazas border, and military occupation within the country. Israel is trying to eliminate Gaza.
Between both sides, are there any military lor political leaders that care about Palestinian civilian lives in war? This whole thing is fucked.
When arned people ask you to not leave it’s called a hostage situation. The mean age in Gaza is 18 years old so we’re talking about kids and parents being told by men with guns to not leave.
When armed people ask you to leave it’s called an illegal invasion. The mean age in Gaza is 18 years old so we’re talking about kids and parents being told by men with guns to abandon their homes forever.
no, it’s war. you can’t attack another country and claim it’s illegal when they cross the borders after you
Are you trying to justify the Israeli terrorist bombing on Gaza City? Or are you trying to justify the Hamas terrorist attack of Oct 7?
If we continue to give in to this revenge-driven, bloodthirsty logic then this conflict will never end.
I won’t say any war is justified from the comfort of my couch
fuck hamas and fuck the idf, but this comment and the one you replied to are quite reductive
Crucial missing context: Israel bombed the way out when people tried to take it.
No. They want the people to stay not because they want to use the Palestinians as human shields. The Palestinians, women and children, were already there and they are bombed anyway. They are no such thing as ‘Palestinian human shields’ in the Israel government dictionary. So it doesn’t make sense Hamas wants them to stay just to be human shields.
They are many reasons. One of the main reason, I think because once the Palestinians leave the place, they’ll never get it back. They’ll be no more Palestinians’ Gaza Strip. Israel is going to make a stern example of the Palestinians for humiliating them. They’ll never be allowed to come back.
Here is an post (translated to English using Google Translate) that I got from a very popular Israeli Telegram channel that can summarise the sentiment of what should be done.
Am; Lek: The Israeli response should include the expulsion of Arab settlements (in the Gaza Strip and Judea and Samaria), and resettlement by Israelis. And not just bombing offices and eliminating terrorists.
In detail:
The situation in the country is very disturbing, it seems that the Israeli response is going to be: again bombings of offices, banks, warehouses, etc. in Gaza + several assassinations (perhaps even senior officials) + maybe also a ground entry into Gaza to hit other targets, etc., and finally exit back. And maybe there was a deal at the end of releasing prisoners in exchange for releasing terrorists, and maybe not.
This is dangerous for Israel and a historical miss:
- This will end the campaign that Hamas and all the other enemies around realize that it is possible to harm Israel even with crimes against humanity, and even come out with a “profit”.
- Therefore, this will cause more such actions against Israel (and in the future we will also get used to it, just as we got used to terrorist attacks in Israel, just as we got used to rockets from the Gaza Strip, etc.).
- There is no revenge for Arab violence.
- There is a historic opportunity here to turn the situation around, and for Israel to leave in a much stronger state than it entered, and to avoid deaths, etc. in the future. In the future it will be difficult to get legitimacy from the world again.
- This action (especially if it includes ground entry) could cost Israel a heavy price, and in vain.
- If IDF are also released from terrorists, then this will cause more and more acts of terrorism against Israel (also because it shows that the action against Israel pays off. And also releases more terrorists who continue to harm Israel. By the way, this event is also because of the Shalit deal freedmen)
- Defining a goal such as “destroying Hamas” is a non-measurable and not so realistic goal: even if 90% of the Hamas terrorists are eliminated, the rest can rise through the ranks, and new recruits can also join. And there is no “victory picture” and no clear evidence of who won the battle (just as it is not clear who won in any of the previous rounds in Gaza)
What, for example, should be the Israeli response:
- To carry out an action of deporting Arab villages (for example deporting the residents of Hawara to Sinai) to declare that every murdered Israeli will be deported to a village or neighborhood in an Arab city, and henceforth this is Israel’s war policy. You can even call these settlements after the names of the murdered. That both illustrates the revenge, and will also help the housing crisis and the financing of the war… For example - if Israel evicts dozens of Arab villages, and sells to the Israelis (at a “price for a settler?”) 100,000 houses + land at an average price of NIS 500,000, this is 50 billion NIS in revenue (it is possible to transfer part of the amount to the owners of the land if they vacate willingly and were not involved in terrorist activity against Israel)
- Deport the residents of Gaza to Sinai (it is possible without land entry, for example, open the crossing to Sinai, ensure that there is no water, etc. in Gaza, and start bombing from north to south, and smuggle the Arab population to Sinai. You can even declare that this is the goal. You can also declare that every Arab who rescues prisoners Jews/bringing bodies of terrorists, etc., can enter Israel and obtain citizenship). It is even possible to imply that Israel is going to bomb the Gaza Strip with a nuclear bomb, also to scare and drive away the residents of Gaza. Another advantage: if the most militant side of the government demands it, and there are discussions about whether Israel is going to use nuclear weapons, and at the end of the Israeli action there will be “only” a “disengagement 2” plan in which all the residents of Gaza are deported to Sinai, it will not seem so extreme…
Advantages:
- Only a loss of territory is a loss as far as the Arabs are concerned, and therefore they will not want to initiate any more such actions - if they knew that for every Israeli killed they lose territory. By the way, in Israel’s wars, the Arabs refer to the war of liberation and the six-day war as their loss - because they lost territory in those wars, compared to the Yohak war, for example, even though Egypt lost, they refer to it as a victory, because there was no Israeli occupation of territory.
- Revenge for the murderous act.
- Even before the last action, we got used to there being terrorist incidents against Jews every day, and sometimes also seriously wounded and murdered. In this way, it is finally possible to get rid of the nests of murders such as Hvara who are swallowed up inside Israel, and this will save a lot of deaths and security resources in the future.
- There is now a short window of opportunity to do this: also in terms of the legitimacy of the action, in Israel and in the world.
- If the result of the war is that the Gaza Strip is emptied by the West, and they begin to establish an Israeli city there, and in addition, in Judea and Samaria only Ramallah and Taiba remain Arab, and all the rest become Israeli settlements, no one will argue who won and who lost the battle.
good luck!
( Dan Assolin )
I wouldn’t be surprised if they want them to die to create bad press against Israel.
Both sites are completely fucked up in the head when it comes to valuing civilian lives in this conflict.
Israeli tactics to steal lands.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hamas has called on Palestinians to stay in their homes after Israel issued sweeping evacuation orders for almost half of Gaza’s more than 2.3 million people ahead of an expected ground offensive.
The Hamas authority for refugee affairs today told residents in the north of the territory to “remain steadfast in your homes and to stand firm in the face of this disgusting psychological war waged by the occupation”.
The UN humanitarian office (OCHA) said early on Friday that more than 400,000 people had already fled their homes in the Gaza Strip and 23 aid workers had been killed since the start of Israeli retaliatory strikes in response to the Hamas attack on Saturday.
A jury has convicted one Colorado police officer and acquitted another for the 2019 homicide of Elijah McClain, a 23-year-old whose death at the hands of law enforcement while walking home sparked international outrage and years of protests.
A Guardian investigation has found that a growing number of countries are passing anti-protest laws as part of a playbook of tactics to intimidate people peacefully raising the alarm about the climate.
The draw on Wednesday night ended a long stretch without a winner of the top prize and brought news media to Midway Market and Liquor in Frazier Park, a community of 2,600 residents about 75 miles north of Los Angeles.
The original article contains 954 words, the summary contains 224 words. Saved 77%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Are you okay AutoTL;DR bot?
Crisis overload…cannot compute.
