• cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    19
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    4 months ago

    Okay, so Russia Invaded Ukraine. Russia is the Aggressor.

    The Hamas attacked Israel, so Israel exterminates Palestine and claims it wants to exterminate the Hamas. The Hamas have committed Warcrimes and hides the self behind Civilians and the IDF does a whole lot of warcrimes too. Both sides are shirt, just the IDF has done a bit more shit than the Hamas. Theres no good side in this conflict. Both sides want to exterminate each other and sacrifice the Palestinian civilians for this.

    I don’t know where you see a more black and white scheme in the middle east conflict than in the Ukraine war, but I’m willing to read your explanation.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      4 months ago

      You appear to forget 75 years of israel invading Palestine. And putting Palestinians in a concentration camp.

      • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        4 months ago

        And 75 Years of the Hamas Attacking Israel. Israel has killed much more Palestinians that the other way around, but its still more complicated than The Ukraine war.

        • Zengen@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          4 months ago

          There was no nation of israel before Israel committed mass murder and near genocide on the Palestinian people. Then they shoved them into the concentration camp of Gaza. Made them.wear special green badges just like the Nazis made them wear the star of David arm bands. They make Palestinian people walk on the opposite side of the street in many places. They do not have the same rights to life liberty or property that Jews have. The Israelis were the first aggressors. And have continued almost 100 years of brutalization against the civilian people. The Israelis are no better than the Nazis that they fled from and in my opinion are not deserving of a nation of their own.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          4 months ago

          Hamas has not existed for 75 years. It is born as a resistance movement against Genocide.

        • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          4 months ago

          Ukraine has also been attacking russian troops since the beginning of the invasion, what’s your point?

          • jj4211@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            If Ukraine started a terror campaign against non-combatants, it would be a reasonable comparison. Problem is that while you can cite Hamas operations against military/police targets, we shouldn’t ignore the operations on non-combatants. Even as the IDF has done wrong, Hamas has done wrong in a similar way, albeit with fewer resources and thus to a lesser extent at this point.

            It’s what I hate about the whole “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”, it likes to present even terroristic acts as morally relative according to context, but it’s just not the case.

          • Soleos@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            4 months ago

            That highlights the point precisely. Ukraine is targeting Russian troops, i.e. legitimate military targets. Hamas targets civilians and uses civilians as human shields. The IDF doesnt care how many civilians they have to go through to get to Hamas.

            • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              4 months ago

              Ukraine is targeting Russian troops

              They also started sending unmanned air vehicles with explosives to Russian infrastructure such as oil. Which I’m not against. Because they’re defending themselves against an invasion. As Palestine is doing. The situation of Palestinians is much, MUCH more dire than that of Ukrainians, so it’s only to be expected (not to be confused with justified) that their response is also more violent.

              uses civilians as human shields

              Sorry, but that’s strictly false, and propagating that shit is heinous. I’ll paste here what someone else said in the comments:

              So this piece doesn’t source any evidence that it was used and ignores the literal fact that later investigations by Amnesty didn’t find credible evidence of use as a military base and the massive Israeli misinformation campaign on that front: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_military_use_of_al-Shifa_hospital#:~:text=During the Israel–Hamas war,Hamas and hospital administrators denied.

              But yeah let’s justify Israel bombing away access to medical care to people forced into a small, war torn area because fuck Palestinians I guess.

            • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              4 months ago

              Hamas attacked first

              Palestinians was there before Israel was even conceived, and the first Nakba, in 1948, which marks the hard line of the invasion, in which 750k+ Palestinians were forcibly relocated, was started by Israel. History didn’t start on October 7th

              • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                4 months ago

                That’s why I pointed out that the CURRENT conflict has been started by the Hamas. Israel may have started this conflict a long time ago, but the Palestinians also have their fair share of commiting warcrimes and violence against Israel.

                • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  If Jewish people in Nazi Germany had started a series of terrorist attacks against civilians, would you be comparing them to Nazis and telling that “both have a fair share of blood in their hands”? Because it’s THAT black and white.

            • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              edit-2
              4 months ago

              Ukraine attacked first after Russia invaded them.

              The only difference is one of those people is brown and you believe colonizing brown people is okay.

              • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                4 months ago

                Bro wtf? I never said that colonizing Palestine is OK. I fucking told you that Israel is also commuting large amounts of warcrimes and is commuting genocide. I told you that both sides(Israel,Hamas) are fucking assholes that don’t care about the Palestinian people who are the biggest loosers of this conflict. Where the hell did I said something racist?

                • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  Hamas is trying to achieve a ceasefire right now. Israel is not.

                  This is not a both sides thing. You have just never bothered to read up anything about Hamas.

                  The racist part is where you sympathize with white people resisting annexation but believe brown people resisting far worse settler colonization and Genocide is very wrong.

                  • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    The racist part is where you sympathize with white people resisting annexation but believe brown people resisting far worse settler colonization and Genocide is very wrong.

                    I never said that.

                    Hamas is trying to achieve a ceasefire right now. Israel is not.

                    This is not a both sides thing. You have just never bothered to read up anything about Hamas.

                    And? It is good that they try to achieve a ceasefire, but that doesn’t mean, that they are the ultimatively completely neutral good guy.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 months ago

        75 years of history that quite literally nullifies it being black and white, because history, as well understood by historians, only makes things more clearly visible, obviously.

      • skozzii@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        4 months ago

        Dude they have been fighting for the whole time and for every bad thing Isreal has done Hamas has done one back.

        Ever heard of the saying “and eye for an eye and the whole world is blind”. Well both sides are blind now.

        The only correct take is that both sides suck and the palastenian people are the ones who suffer. To take a side in this conflict is uninformed, as both sides have way too much blood on their hands. This is very far from black and white and simple.

        • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          4 months ago

          Dude they have been fighting for the whole time and for every bad thing Isreal has done Hamas has done one back.

          Damn, that’s disgusting. I’ll rephrase it in terms that hopefully will make you understand why it’s disgusting: “Ukraine has been fighting back the invasion the whole time, and for every bad thing Russia has done, Ukraine has done one back”

          Ever heard of the saying “and eye for an eye and the whole world is blind”. Well both sides are blind now.

          What are Palestinians supposed to do? Peacefully accept being relocated and murdered by the hundreds of thousands? Should Ukrainians just have given up? Is Ukraine wrong for targeting infrastructure inside Russia with explosive unmanned air vehicles now?

          The only correct take is that both sides suck and the palastenian people are the ones who suffer. To take a side in this conflict is uninformed, as both sides have way too much blood on their hands. This is very far from black and white and simple.

          One side has blood on their hands because it’s the invader, the other has blood on their hands because it’s the invaded. This is the most stupid take I’ve seen.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          4 months ago

          This is just blatantly false. You don’t know anything about the history.

          What was the 2018 march to return? Only one side is seeking peace. And israel only seeks destruction.

          This Genocide is what israel has been doing for over 75 years.